Ok, I am currently cycling a 29 gallon Biocube. I have a 25 high with stand, a PC light, a heater, a powerhead, and a canister filter. I also have been allowed a "man room" because we have an extra bedroom. I am thinking about setting up one of the two tanks, and keeping it totally simple, basically to put fish and frags in to make sure they are eating, pest free, healthy etc. before they go in the display tank. Is this a feasible setup to maintain through just water changes and vaccuming? Everyone always says that they should have a setup like this as preventative maintenance. Basically, I'm just asking if this is too basic, or if it will be worthwhile. I'd especially like to hear from people that have had either fish or coral diseases or parasites, as to if they believe this would have made a difference. Thanks.
QT tank I have two 10G tanks I use as QT tanks and love them. I keep them in my laundry room. Simple water changes and vacuuming will not really prevent a build-up of toxins. Water conditioners to remove ammonia don't really do the trick either, because you'll still have bacteria build-up. You'll need some kind of sponge to hold nitrifying bacteria that's been seeded in your main tank. Corals don't give off as much ammonia, but you have to be pretty careful with the levels and run carbon. What I like about the QT tanks is that I can watch new items for awhile and see what they need. Then I can add them when ready to the main tank. I started using them after really nasty ich outbreak when I first started last year. I had to move all my fish to QT, then heat up the main tank to 86 degrees to burn it out. Luckily, I had no corals or this would have toasted them. I treated with formalin rather than copper, so the QT tanks don't pollute my main tanks. I've never had a lick of disease since then.
Thanks for the response. As far as bactria build up etc. I was thinking that I have about 5 extra pounds of rock in the tank being cured, and I thought that I would put them in there, and just leave the bottom bare for easier clean up. This would probably help w/ some of the denitrification, the rest being made up for with water changes. Also, as a quarantine/hospital, or basically a holding tank, the bioload should always be low to zero in this tank. The function of the tank will be more as a quarantine or hospital tank than a traditional frag tank. I may place frags in this tank so that I can observe them for general health and pests, before they make their entrance in the display tank, but not as a traditional frag tank for grow out. To my knowledge, that would most likely require better lights and water quality.
the way i operate my qt tank is by hob filters. i keep one going and seeded on the main tank and when i need to qt i pull one filter pad out of the main tank and add it to the hob filter on the qt tank. this keeps active carbon int eh main tank and instantly cycles the qt tank when ever i need it.
filtering QT I wouldn't put live rock in a QT tank because it's so porous. It may end up being a reservoir for diseases. Ich for instance can take awhile to get going, and killing it off takes at least 5 weeks. Every time I break down the tank, all items are thoroughly washed in freshwater and bleach. It's pretty hard to keep QT tank bioloads low once a fish goes in there. Also remember that some antibiotics will wipe out your nitrifying bacteria. You can keep the tank alive with massive water changes, which for me were pretty easy to do in a laundy room sink. My QT also uses small HOB filters and airstones. Airstones are ok once you learn to add stuff to raise the ph.
You don't want rock in a tank that might need to be medicated with copper. All of the "expert" writers in this hobby are strong advocates of the necessity of quarantine tanks.
So, what is the best way to keep the tank "cycled" w/ beneficial bacteria etc.? I guess this is essentially like running a fish only tank (something that I think should be easier, but I don't know anything about it). I guess the question I should have asked initially, is what are the bare essentials necessary for a quarantine/hostpital tank? Thanks again for the responses gang.
extra tank basics I use: 10G tank HOB filter with carbon available if needed PVC pipe to keep fish comfortable cheap lights to keep coral comfortable, on timer heater 50W and could be weaker thermometer GFCI outlet QT-only net tank covering for evaporation hose for QT cleaning refractometer foam filter block for nitrifying bacteria Pure: product to knock out ammonia products if you have an emergency One area where I may differ on others QT tanks is airstones and airpumps. I use them, since several popular remedies lower dissolved oxygen in the water. HOWEVER, to use airstones you must get a ph test kit. The little bubbles make the water acidic. Testing ph is key with new livestock and with a QT tank, to make sure you don't upset the inhabitants. You could skip airstones and use a water pump.
Personally I wouldn't go smaller then a 30, the bigger the more stable it well be, temp can change in a heart beat in a 10 gal, even a 20, and they don't cost that much more a walmart for a cheapie to use for QT. You can use a in tank standup sponge filter driven with a small air pump but way better is a hang on the back box filter like say a AquaClear. You can pop the lid off and add filter floss or carbon or poly pads to remove meds or whatever. Don't use their premade stuff as ir cost way to much, just buy bulk carbon and throuw in a bag and drop in or rolls of floss and cut to fit. the water cascading back into the tank well supply all the oxygen needed and add a small maxi jet at one end of the tank for circulation. Then all you need is a proper sized heater and a thermometer. Some people add 3 or 4" pvc Y's and T's,but I have found that the fish go and hide and even when they come out they well hide when you go to feed and don't see the food falling. So then you have to net it out which causes more stress. I use a couple med. size pieces of base rock which allows them to feel secure but you can drop the food down which ever side of the rock they are lying and step back and they well come out to investagate and hopefully eat. You don't even need a light, although if you can afford one, get it. The room light is plenty for fish and the dim light for the first few days well help the fish to adjust.
Also the rock the very first time well absorb a very slight amount of copper so you well have to add a bit more the next day, but that is just the very first time and not first times down the road. Also you can never put corals or inverts in the tank which I wouldn't do anyway. Who wants to take a chance with a $100 plus maxima clam even if you scrubed the thing out. You can do water changes using the water out of the display tank which saves on the wallet. As for calc. and alk., it makes not a hoot to fish and besides if their is nothing like coral skelatons trying to grow it won't deplete hardly at all. Ph has to be kept 7.8 to 8.4, should not be an issue. Salinity is the most crital parim there is bar none. A fish cannot tolerate much of a swing higher, 1.021 to 1.022 would be the max and to much for some fish, so make SURE to check the salin in both the bag and the tank and adjust the tank. Most fish can adjust down a few points if you acclimate longer, say 3 or 4 hrs of changing water in the bag slowly with tank water. I cannot stress how important salinity is, many a fellow has lost fish after doing everything they read to do and can't figure out why the fish died and looked fine. Keep the QT up and running, you well never know when something can go wrong in the display tank, stuck heater, fish suddenly being picked on by another and needs to be trapped and removed or helping someone out that does'nt have a QT tank and is in dire need. You don't have to keep a fish in the QT , just drop a flake of food in once every few week or a mysis and the good bacteria well love you.
Also don't freak out about keeping it spotless. Some ALGAE growing in it well give the fish some natural food to pick on until it well except prepared. Fish can tolerate high levels of nitrates, say a 100 or so. I well guarantee you that in the days of undergravel filters we had nitrates above that. That is why we couldn't keep most corals back then except for some softies which like high nitrates and phosphates, but we didn't have protein skimmers and the vast knowledge of today. When it is setting there doing nothing just do water changes with the main tanks water and replace the evap water with ro/di. Keep the salinity at about 1.020 as that should be lower then most stores keep at, BUT BE CAREFULL, some places keep their tanks down real low to help keep the ich down, so CHECK IT. Also use Mardel products. Their copper is a very stable form and you can also treat at the same time with their Maracyn and Maracyn2, one being for gram pos. and the other for gram neg. bacteria and if you can tell for sure what the fish has your'e a better man then me. Sometime you well see a fish scraping his gills on the rocks and he shows no signs of ich, well he probably has flukes and you can treat with PraziPro and you can use it in conjunction with the other even though it says not to on the bottle. I broke this up into three post, cause I didn't know how much these windows would hold. Cheers John
Thanks everyone for the info, especially fishermann. Maybe I'm wanting one tank to do too much. I currently have a cycling 29 gallon AIO cube that is the display, and the QT tank was going to be for me to put corals and fish in when I get them from an online vendor, or someone else's tank, so that I can observe them, and make sure nothing unsavory is tagging along with them into my display tank. As far as salinity, I'm a little confused, bc these fish are about to go in my display that is 1.025, so shouldn't I be acclimating them for this salinity?
Bigben7 You are absolutely right, but unless you are getting them from a friend that keeps his tank at 1.025 you well need to have your QT lower, as most stores and online sources are much lower and some are at 1.016 to help control ich outbrakes. You can always add some salt to some ro/di water and stir for a couple hrs and bring your QT tanks water up to match once you know for sure what your friends salin is. As for putting it in your display tank you well have to raise the salin slowly to match, say 4 or 5 days, depending on the fish, some are more touchy then others. You can do this by mixing 1/2+ cup of salt in a gal. ro/di water and replacing a gal. in the QT each day. As for using one QT tank for both, that is hard. I understand why people are using 10 gal. tanks, less salt mix is needed, That is why you do water changes using the display tank, it should have 0 nitrates and phosphates, and is loaded with good bugs, you may have to mix some ro/di water in with it to lower the salin to the QT's figure, but works great for QT's water changes and helps replenshish good bacteria if you are treating with copper in the QT. You have to understand there is a reason for not keeping some of the more touchy fish until your display tank is say a year old. There is more then just the 3 bacteria cycle, amon., nitrites, nitrates that is in a well established system. There are zillions of other things that have taken place in a well established system. The one biggest mistake made in the hobby that cost more fishes their lives is that as soon as the cycle hits the nitrate level people think Man my tank is cycled, now I can put fish in, and they go buy fish and wonder why they all get ich and wipes out the tank. When a tank hits the nitrate cycle all that means is the water is safe, not stable and well established, that is why keeping your QT up and running is important, the older the better.
I understand the one for all theory for observing, BUT what is you find something wrong and have to treat??? Now you have a very small tank which is not established and your adding copper and antibiotics and where are all the stable established bugs to keep the system stable?? So you go about doing huge water changes to keep the amon. and nitrites down, so now you are subjecting the animals to huge water changes which no matter how careful you are is going to have some variances in it, temp. salin, plus not to mention all the fiddling with the tank your doing can't be making your new tendent feel at ease. Keeping most of your tangs and angles in a non established system is not good. Tangs like hippos, all the powder series, purples are very very prone to ich even in the BEST of systems, they should not be in anysystem less then 6 mos. old and most powders less then a year old. So if they are that touchy and you're tring to acclimate them in a 10 gal non established tank where the least little bit of amon. or nitrites is going to cause huge stress on these fish, your chances for success are not good. Also you have to realize tangs need alot of room and even an established 10 gal. is not going to be enjoyed. A 30 long [don't use highs, your want the bottom area for swimming room] I think is the min. size, but a 20 is better then a 10. As for corals a 10 might be ok but you have to make sure you can keep the temp steady, I don't QT my corals, BUT having said that I am taking a chance. I read alot on reefcentral and stay up to date on the latest bugs for the type of coral or invert I'm getting and things making the rounds and I use a jewelers loop and check everything and MOST of all I am very comfortable with the source that I am getting them from, be it a fellow reefer or a supplier. The only inverts you have to worry about is clams and you can check them with the loop. Hope this helps and if you have anymore questions don't hesitate to ask. Cheers John
